Author Topic: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2  (Read 92742 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #360 on: August 19, 2019, 02:27:43 PM »
The first big game to go Stadia exclusive is going to cause riots. :lol

At least EGS is like Steam but worse. Stadia is a compleeeeeeeetely different beast, and gamers don't like change.

Yeah as I said above in my edit;  the real win would be if eventually Stadia games/purcahses are available for people to download to play locally.  I doubt that will happen, but honestly think that despite the increase in customer support complexity it would be a big win for Google.   

Stadia is a dedicated platform, based on Linux... would be funny if Google was like "Sure, try to play this locally" and there's only .deb's of the games. :lol

But you have me thinking... even though the raw "game" executable is targeted at Linux, that doesn't mean you have to deliver an executable to the player for offline play... in a similar way to buffering a video, I wonder if an eventual desktop Stadia client (or the web client, if browsers get to that level in time) would be able to just cache data offline somehow... The processing would still need to happen locally so you'd have to turn all the bells and whistles down, but... might be possible.

But even that wouldn't be close to the typical offline gaming experience.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #361 on: August 19, 2019, 02:34:26 PM »


 :curious

Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #362 on: August 19, 2019, 02:41:49 PM »
The first big game to go Stadia exclusive is going to cause riots. :lol

At least EGS is like Steam but worse. Stadia is a compleeeeeeeetely different beast, and gamers don't like change.

Well when the change (in this case) is worse on almost every measurable metric except cost to the consumer, who can blame them?

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #363 on: August 19, 2019, 02:42:40 PM »
Cyberpunk not launching with the other versions

RIP Stillbornia. Your one chance and you blow it.

The first big game to go Stadia exclusive is going to cause riots. :lol

At least EGS is like Steam but worse. Stadia is a compleeeeeeeetely different beast, and gamers don't like change.

Yeah as I said above in my edit;  the real win would be if eventually Stadia games/purcahses are available for people to download to play locally.  I doubt that will happen, but honestly think that despite the increase in customer support complexity it would be a big win for Google.   

Stadia is a dedicated platform, based on Linux... would be funny if Google was like "Sure, try to play this locally" and there's only .deb's of the games. :lol

sudo apt-get install Cyberpunk2077

:yeshrug So hard.

(Or you're talking about the weirdos that use M'Fedora and the RHPM)

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #364 on: August 19, 2019, 02:43:19 PM »
I don't think Stadia is ever going to offer 'offline' versions of titles, but I also don't think they're ever going to have genuine exclusives outside of always online multiplayer titles anyway; its relatively trivial to do a Windows port of a Linux build, and will always be worth it to sell to people that don't buy into an always online ecosystem.

Where its not worth that is something like an MMO where you can just take a google moneyhat to cover your infrastructure costs and release a thin client to anyone who wants it.

nachobro

  • Live Más
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #365 on: August 19, 2019, 02:48:25 PM »


:teehee

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #366 on: August 19, 2019, 02:49:39 PM »
Right, which is why I said they could do it via an Operating System.

But let's be real, all of these games have PC versions.  They could cut a deal with the pubs to just have a download store that had the PC versions,  I don't see why any pub would balk at that outside of those that have EGS exclusive deals and whatnot.

Yes, I was going to post earlier I don't think Stadia will end up with any large non-timed exclusives. The ability to just release to Windows (and Linux and macOS too, now that the clients are being freed of DirectX in favor of cross-platform Vulkan) would be too tempting, and I don't see Google as a publisher having an antagonistic mindset towards its own external developers *or* towards its competitors. (Put another way, Google is more like Microsoft/Nintendo these days than the cut-throat console makers of yesteryear.)

So yeah, Stadia is probably going to have a really anemic exclusives library, but:

1. That's good for consumers.

2. Exclusives don't really matter for Stadia's core value propositions anyways. Those being: jump in and play "instantly"; play on any device; and play without up-front hardware costs.

In fact if every platform-holder agreed on a common cloud cross-save protocol, Google would be just as happy to interoperate with your existing game libraries elsewhere (think Movies Everywhere.)

Uhhh.. what?


thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #367 on: August 19, 2019, 02:52:06 PM »
Yes, I was going to post earlier I don't think Stadia will end up with any large non-timed exclusives. The ability to just release to Windows (and Linux and macOS too, now that the clients are being freed of DirectX in favor of cross-platform Vulkan)

Small aside: With how much work Valve (and Google with AMD/EA-DICE by proxy [given they're the ones that made the library anyway]) are doing on Vulkan, you'd think more natural ports would come out day-and-date on Linux. Sadly, that hasn't been the case, AFAIK.

Like, I really want Linux gaming to take off for the sake of Adobe/etc. to port their shit the OS. But sadly AAA launches still seem... sparse... on the service. Or I'm just not paying attention to the Steam/Linux icons on the Steam store.

Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #368 on: August 19, 2019, 02:54:53 PM »
Google needs to just show a blow up shit demo like a stadia-Labs game where you can just fuck around flinging sand, water, rag dolls, burning cloth, crushing cars, slamming things through fully detailed buildings. Like Blast Corp / Red Faction / Nvidia tech demo 2k20.

Even a smug 900 game steam account having user like myself would sub for a month just to mess around with that, even with the 50ms added input latency, macroblocking IQ, lack of moddabilty, and absolutely no delusions of actual ownership.


Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #369 on: August 19, 2019, 02:56:35 PM »
Cyberpunk not launching with the other versions

RIP Stillbornia. Your one chance and you blow it.
Big record scratch for me there too.  You had me there for a second Google, but that quickly went away.  Bye, Stadia.  :nope

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #370 on: August 19, 2019, 03:00:28 PM »
Yes, I was going to post earlier I don't think Stadia will end up with any large non-timed exclusives. The ability to just release to Windows (and Linux and macOS too, now that the clients are being freed of DirectX in favor of cross-platform Vulkan)

Small aside: With how much work Valve (and Google with AMD/EA-DICE by proxy [given they're the ones that made the library anyway]) are doing on Vulkan, you'd think more natural ports would come out day-and-date on Linux. Sadly, that hasn't been the case, AFAIK.

Valve has been trying for *years* and to be fair to them, their efforts have born a *lot* of fruit behind the scenes, but none of it is the type of progress that makes for a flashy headline. I would say Google is very likely building on what Valve's done -- if not technically, then in the sense of "OK all the incumbents have been laughing at Linux gaming for decades, let's fucking do something about it," and actually taking the platform seriously on its own merits.

Google and Valve are also attacking the problem from two separate sides. Valve is trying to get various Linux distributions as they exist today better gaming support, and for them that means: improving emulation, improving drivers, improving compatibility, cutting down on dependencies, etc.

Google's approaching things from the content side instead of the technical, likely winning over developers with cold-hard cash or other kind of guarantees or concessions. AFAIK this is something Valve has never done; they've never paid someone to make a Linux port of their existing game.

Getting Linux gaming off the ground requires at least both approaches.

Coming back to this:

Quote
With how much work Valve (and Google with AMD/EA-DICE by proxy [given they're the ones that made the library anyway]) are doing on Vulkan, you'd think more natural ports would come out day-and-date on Linux.

Who knows, that could be the case going forward, at least for the Vulkan/Stadia versions. Valve's been toiling in the basement shoring up the technical side for literal years, and now Google is forging relationships with publishers compelling them to create Linux versions. Right now these are mostly for after-the-fact ports, but as Google gets more involved in the gaming industry and builds on these relationships, we may see day-one Linux support proliferate.

Capcom taught me in the Wii era that even if something is technically possible, that kinda means jack without the platform holder shaking their ass out going "Oooh please port to me." And Stadia's shaking its ass pretty hard right now.

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #371 on: August 19, 2019, 03:04:11 PM »
Oh, I know all that. I'm just saying with how much effort Valve and the Vulkan library has been doing, it's just... odd... that Linux ports haven't happened as often/increased over the years.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #372 on: August 19, 2019, 03:05:05 PM »
in fact if every platform-holder agreed on a common cloud cross-save protocol, Google would be just as happy to interoperate with your existing game libraries elsewhere (think Movies Everywhere.)

add support for gamesave manager, and my entire gaming history is already on google drive

nachobro

  • Live Más
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #373 on: August 19, 2019, 03:06:17 PM »
Another Stadia exclusive announced on the Dorito Pope stream
http://www.gyltthegame.com/

e: i guess it was already announced as an exclusive?


Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #374 on: August 19, 2019, 03:07:16 PM »
Oh, I know all that. I'm just saying with how much effort Valve and the Vulkan library has been doing, it's just... odd... that Linux ports haven't happened as often/increased over the years.

Publishers are lazy/greedy. If there's not a financial reason for them to do something, they won't do it, no matter how easy it may seem. And from their perspective, the Linux audience itself has not changed (e.g. become larger or more wealthy.)

Chicken and the egg is always a problem for new platforms, and the only real cure (in a way) is throwing money at the problem.

Sho Nuff

  • o/~ TOUCH ME AND I'LL BREAK YOUR FACE o/~
  • Senior Member

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #376 on: August 19, 2019, 03:22:54 PM »
https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760

Yeeeeeeeep

Strange devs keep doing it on Steam, GOG, and Humble Bundle. :idont

I also wonder how different these things would be if developers explicitly supported only a single or handful of distros.

No shit it's gonna crash on your Gentoo-running laptop from 2003...

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #377 on: August 19, 2019, 03:30:44 PM »
Isn't the problem with linux graphics drivers mostly that nvidia and amd still keep that shit locked down and proprietary, so linux only gets them when someone gets around to it?

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #378 on: August 19, 2019, 03:30:56 PM »
https://twitter.com/bgolus/status/1080213166116597760

Yeeeeeeeep

I, mean: I get that. But there's a reason Valve is on Debian (well, Ubuntu): Just say you're supporting whatever Valve/AMD supports as the lead OS and start pumping money into that distro. Anything else is "unsupported."

Linus even mentions that fragmentation of Linux is what is killing Linux, so this isn't like it's NEW news, dude.

Sho Nuff

  • o/~ TOUCH ME AND I'LL BREAK YOUR FACE o/~
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #379 on: August 19, 2019, 05:01:42 PM »
Maybe if Valve decided to do their own hardware and make Linux the OS, doing a HUGE PUSH, that might do it

Oh wait

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #380 on: August 19, 2019, 06:00:00 PM »
Once again, Valve never bought exclusives, or even paid for ports. This is a visibly different strategy from Google's with Stadia so far.

Also, just in terms of platform models, Valve tried intercepting where the puck was (old-style home consoles), Google is tracking where the puck is going to (cloud gaming.) Trying to innovate an existing space is much harder than forging your own (blue ocean.)

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #381 on: August 19, 2019, 06:37:49 PM »
The icing on the cake will be if the google stadia controller doesn’t have Linux drivers.

Imo, Running games locally on Linux is just kind of a dead idea. There will probably always be some hacky solutions, but windows has gotten pretty good, and nobody seems to care about UWP anymore.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #382 on: August 19, 2019, 06:52:49 PM »
The icing on the cake will be if the google stadia controller doesn’t have Linux drivers.

Imo, Running games locally on Linux is just kind of a dead idea. There will probably always be some hacky solutions, but windows has gotten pretty good, and nobody seems to care about UWP anymore.

I think Google have already said the Stadia controller recognises as a generic HID controller when connected via USB.
UWP died when Windows Phone died, it just took a while for the Xbox team to realise that.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #383 on: August 19, 2019, 07:55:07 PM »
Yeah Stadia Controller is generic HID, should work anywhere. Bluetooth may be trickier but I'm sure someone will smooth that over.

Depending on how Proton goes Linux could end up third-party wise where Nintendo currently is, which would be a massive improvement over the current situation. (Lots of old ports, lots of indies, about 50/50 odds of new announcements supporting the platform.) Thankfully due to Humble Bundle's early efforts, Linux gaming is kind of an accepted "thing" in indie dev (far more so than AAA publishing.) Depending on how Google paying publishers to (basically) make Linux/Vulkan versions of their AAA games, that could end up being the other piece.

But I do accept Linux gaming will never equal Windows or PlayStation/Xbox as far as AAA games and exclusives go. But more games on more platforms should make everyone happy. :) And it seems like most everyone is -- two different trailers for Super Hot hit my YouTube inbox this morning: one from Nintendo's official account, and one from Stadia. Stuff like that certainly makes me happy. :D

bluemax

  • Senior Member
NO

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #385 on: August 21, 2019, 12:37:38 AM »
The thing that would make stadia the most appealing to me honestly, is if it was paired with a download store so you could stream when away from home, but play locally when you are.


Ghoul

  • Cremation will be my last chance to have a smoking hot body. We have already made the arrangements.
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #386 on: August 21, 2019, 12:12:33 PM »
Yeah the whole "Hey buy the game here, and when we get bored of stadia and shut it down you're fucked."

If it was hey spend 10 bucks extra and get to play the game anywhere you want that's more enticing

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #387 on: August 22, 2019, 02:36:03 PM »
https://9to5google.com/2019/08/22/google-stadia-ui-spotted-gamescom-explained/

Neat.

Tempted to buy into Founders just for username privileges.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #388 on: August 23, 2019, 10:21:16 AM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/cuaujf/18_things_we_learned_about_google_stadia_this_week/

Quote
10 - When Assassin's Creed Odyssey was playable through Project Stream, 25mbps was required for a 1080p experience. Google now has 1080p possible for 15mpbs to 10mpbs connections.

Very encouraging. Would love to see 1080p streaming get down to 1-5 Mbps. Video compression technology is already insane, but it's going to continue getting better. Combined with more data centers to bring the edge closer to consumers, and I could see the addressable market for Stadia exploding in the next 4-5 years, regardless of infrastructure investment on the ISP level.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #389 on: August 23, 2019, 10:30:32 AM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/cuaujf/18_things_we_learned_about_google_stadia_this_week/

Quote
10 - When Assassin's Creed Odyssey was playable through Project Stream, 25mbps was required for a 1080p experience. Google now has 1080p possible for 15mpbs to 10mpbs connections.

Very encouraging. Would love to see 1080p streaming get down to 1-5 Mbps. Video compression technology is already insane, but it's going to continue getting better. Combined with more data centers to bring the edge closer to consumers, and I could see the addressable market for Stadia exploding in the next 4-5 years, regardless of infrastructure investment on the ISP level.

The majority of TV broadcasts are still in 1080i, so a 'good enough' solution for most TV owners who mostly watch broadcast TV is still going to be below 1080p

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #390 on: August 23, 2019, 10:58:06 AM »
Probably adds a couple millisecond input lag to compress that far. 

Wish they let you set a quality level so someone like DF could measure stuff like that.

It's not a raw stream anyways, so I doubt the compression from 4K -> 1080p is much of an issue for G's data centers.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #391 on: August 23, 2019, 12:39:14 PM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/cuaujf/18_things_we_learned_about_google_stadia_this_week/

Quote
10 - When Assassin's Creed Odyssey was playable through Project Stream, 25mbps was required for a 1080p experience. Google now has 1080p possible for 15mpbs to 10mpbs connections.

Very encouraging. Would love to see 1080p streaming get down to 1-5 Mbps. Video compression technology is already insane, but it's going to continue getting better. Combined with more data centers to bring the edge closer to consumers, and I could see the addressable market for Stadia exploding in the next 4-5 years, regardless of infrastructure investment on the ISP level.

The majority of TV broadcasts are still in 1080i, so a 'good enough' solution for most TV owners who mostly watch broadcast TV is still going to be below 1080p

Surprisingly 1080i over the air broadcast is about the best 1080 picture quality you can get outside of a Blu-ray.

It’s typically  better picture quality than cable, YouTube, and Netflix (all modern TVs will de-interlace it anyway).

Edit: I can almost guarantee that Stadia will have a noticeably worse picture quality than something running locally. It might have more graphical effects turned on but will look less crisp and sort of smudgy... just like comparing YouTube in general to a Blu-ray.

One might expect Stadia to be even worse than normal YouTube because the compression has to be working really fast.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 12:52:00 PM by kingv »

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #392 on: August 23, 2019, 12:56:35 PM »
AFAICS, they're using hardware rendering not software, and they're rendering once to stream, not compositing once via internal renderer, and then re-encoding that to stream.
ie the games internal framebuffer is being rendered out to streamed video directly, rather than something like out to a TV and then to a capture card. The GPUs doing the rendering once, to a compressed stream format.

Sho Nuff

  • o/~ TOUCH ME AND I'LL BREAK YOUR FACE o/~
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #393 on: August 23, 2019, 01:12:18 PM »
The difference required in bitrates between static and dynamic video are night and day, sadly.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #394 on: August 23, 2019, 01:51:12 PM »
Blah blah google has tech.. tech that likely hasn't changed since they decided to drop the bitrate.

So a bitrate drop from 25 to 10-15 means they've decided to drop the quality level and/or increase the input latency.  Still might look great and not have noticable lag to most;  but it's just the reality of a decision like that.

H264 -> H265 was about an 80% reduction in required bandwidth, H265 -> H265+ is about a 65% reduction in required bandwidth

like, without changing a single part of the hardware and just changing the encoder used you'd see that bandwidth reduction.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #395 on: August 23, 2019, 03:15:33 PM »
GreatSage knows his shit, riotous does not.

Fifstar

  • Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #396 on: August 23, 2019, 03:24:52 PM »
I wonder how many games will be free with the premium service. I just don't think the prospect of a streaming service where you can mainly play full priced games will work for many people. MS already has a respectable line up on gamepass, why can't Google offer a similar line up? Skipping the initial cost of a console isn't all that attractive if you have to pay big bucks for the games without any possibility to sell the games. I feel the target that doesn't want to pay for a console but isn't somewhat price sensitive is rather small.
Gulp

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #397 on: August 23, 2019, 04:10:17 PM »
The difference required in bitrates between static and dynamic video are night and day, sadly.

Is this just because they can’t compress the dynamic feed quickly enough for a real time experience?

It makes sense, as I’m sure doing the best possible compression is not possible in real time.

I will say that their own capture of 1080p/60 Assassins creed looks like somebody smeared Vaseline on the screen (like all YouTube video).

I have a hard time believing that it will look better in the wild than their marketing videos do over YouTube.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #398 on: August 23, 2019, 04:13:16 PM »
I wonder how many games will be free with the premium service. I just don't think the prospect of a streaming service where you can mainly play full priced games will work for many people. MS already has a respectable line up on gamepass, why can't Google offer a similar line up? Skipping the initial cost of a console isn't all that attractive if you have to pay big bucks for the games without any possibility to sell the games. I feel the target that doesn't want to pay for a console but isn't somewhat price sensitive is rather small.

I assume games will go on sale on stadia for the exact same reason if you go to the Play store right now you'll find movies and TV shows on sale, and people will buy those despite the nebulous concept of ownership inherent to digital purchases. And unlike gamepass (or PSN) you own whatever you buy.

Give me a fucking break, you guys are just missing the point.

I mean, you seem to be coming it at from the perspective that they have a fixed bitrate their hardware was intended to meet, then they lowered the quality to reduce that further, rather than they improved their encoder to offer the same quality at a lower bitrate.

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #399 on: August 23, 2019, 04:40:08 PM »
:no1curr We all know (besides Tasty who is already on his knees for Page and Sergey) this shit will lag. Question is how badly.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #400 on: August 23, 2019, 05:06:43 PM »
Future review spoilers:

“Googles Stadia works... mostly”

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #401 on: August 23, 2019, 05:29:20 PM »
besides Tasty who is already on his knees for Page and Sergey

Uhh don't forget Sundar AKA current CEO and main exec in charge of Chrome and Chrome OS's successes :wag

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #402 on: August 23, 2019, 05:39:53 PM »
I mean, you seem to be coming it at from the perspective that they have a fixed bitrate their hardware was intended to meet, then they lowered the quality to reduce that further, rather than they improved their encoder to offer the same quality at a lower bitrate.

I think it's far fetched to assume Google made a leap in encoding tech in the last few months yeah.  Especially since we are talking about encoding that has to be as fast as possible, that is not as big of a factor for most video encoding improvements.   Even for live streaming video it isn't as big of a deal because you can be delayed a few seconds and still be considered "live";  you can't do the same thing for game streaming.

But sure maybe google made a massive leap in their encoding tech over the last 2 months;  I highly fucking doubt that.   But even if they had, what I'm talking about still implies from a technical perspective.

Eat a fucking twat Tasty

again, you're looking at it from the completely wrong way round.
15Mbs isn't some magical threshhold they have to beat, like an emissions test or some shit.
Its the number they're saying they can hit in a real world environment with final hardware and software outside of the beta test. Its not some target they have to try and cheat to beat.
If they wanted to go lower without sacrificing quality, they could, the exact same way AAAs go lower; do a 30fps stream instead of a 60fps one.

If their internal target was a 10Mbs stream, and they didn't hit it, who cares? If it was 20Mbs and they blew right past it, again, who cares?
These numbers as 'thresholds' are entirely arbitrary. There is no need for them to go "Oh, well we got a lot of reports that our beta test with - let's just fucking assume there was some margin for error in a beta test - these settings worked pretty great. Now lets fuck things up because we need to hit the number 15 for some reason"

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #403 on: August 23, 2019, 05:57:50 PM »
dude, you're pretty obviously looking at it as "What sacrifices need to be made to hit this bitrate" and not "what bitrate do we need to stream at this quality?"

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #404 on: August 23, 2019, 06:41:53 PM »

You see Google drop from requiring 25 to 10-15 and seem to have assumed 100% of that drop is them somehow inventing new compression tech that lowers compression with no drop in quality and no frame delay. 


No, I see google going to an engineer "Hey, what kind of bandwidth do you reckon we'll need for a beta test at 1080p 60fps on non final hardware with the widest possible compatibility plus some room for overhead and telemetry" and getting a "I dunno, 25mps?" answer.
Then with finalised hardware, a newer encoding codec that has less widespread adoption on non-supplied-with-the-stadia hardware but has better compression, and without beta testing overheads it turns out to only nned 10-15mps.

jfc dude.

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #405 on: August 23, 2019, 06:47:44 PM »
SOMEONE GIVE ME MY PILLS

No, keep going off king.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
So you can finally have a heart attack and die and leave the rest of us alone from your special fellow fits.
[close]

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #406 on: August 23, 2019, 07:32:26 PM »
Google Project Stream beta test bandwidth requirements a year ago: 25Mbs connection, any fucking hardware
Google Stadia 1080p streaming requirements 1 year later: 15Mbs connection, specifically new version chromecasts

DOWNGRADETON

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #407 on: August 23, 2019, 07:39:02 PM »
But Stadia supports any fucking hardware too... (via Chrome)

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #408 on: August 23, 2019, 07:39:03 PM »
Jesus Christ, shut the fuck up you two. :lol Who gives a shit if it is "downgraded" or not, when Google is going to kill this flop in two years.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #409 on: August 23, 2019, 07:39:53 PM »
Jesus Christ, shut up and fuck, you two. :phil Who gives a shit if it is "downgraded" or not, when Google is going to kill Steam and EGS in two years.

Fixed.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #410 on: August 23, 2019, 07:53:30 PM »
But Stadia supports any fucking hardware too... (via Chrome)

yeah, and Googles equivalent to H265 - AV1 - hit v.1.0 in january of this year, so it would seem kind of likely that they are using that

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #412 on: August 28, 2019, 08:22:23 PM »
i give it 5 but yeah. it'll die in this form eventually.
◕‿◕

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #413 on: August 29, 2019, 12:46:56 PM »
If we could talk about this on a Google Wave I feel like it would have a chance.

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #414 on: September 06, 2019, 12:51:54 AM »
There's no precedent for them killing off a service where people have purchased content (without that service migrating content to their new version.)

For the most part the services they killed weren't even ad supported either.   

But I do agree it's a valid concern;  mainly because I just don't think game streaming is going to take off.. the tech world seems convinced but man I'm not lol

I remember the GFW platform that Microsoft rolled out. I bought a couple games on that, it disappeared. They migrated everything to GFW-Live, then discontinued that a year later. I have no idea how to get my hands on my purchases. NBD, but it does make me cagey about other digital purchases which rely on a service-with-sign-in.

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #415 on: September 06, 2019, 12:59:06 AM »
There's no precedent for them killing off a service where people have purchased content (without that service migrating content to their new version.)

For the most part the services they killed weren't even ad supported either.   

But I do agree it's a valid concern;  mainly because I just don't think game streaming is going to take off.. the tech world seems convinced but man I'm not lol

I remember the GFW platform that Microsoft rolled out. I bought a couple games on that, it disappeared. They migrated everything to GFW-Live, then discontinued that a year later. I have no idea how to get my hands on my purchases. NBD, but it does make me cagey about other digital purchases which rely on a service-with-sign-in.

AFIAK, those are tied to your X-box Live account and you can still download them. But it's a gigantic pain in the ass to where you're better off considering them dead/dusted.

There's no precedent for them killing off a service where people have purchased content (without that service migrating content to their new version.)

It's cute that you're so optimistic because "muh money," when this is Google. If it doesn't make them money, they'll cut it fast and hard, consumers be damned.

nachobro

  • Live Más
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #416 on: September 06, 2019, 12:23:52 PM »
i remember when ea first started doing download games pre-origin on ea downloader or whatever it was called and part of the deal with that is you only had access to anything you bought for like 1-3 years. :lol

Trent Dole

  • the sharpest tool in the shed
  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #417 on: September 06, 2019, 04:31:37 PM »
It's cute that you're so optimistic because "muh money," when this is Google. If it doesn't make them money, they'll cut it fast and hard, consumers be damned.
Games exclusively as a service that we can turn off at anytime. :money
Hi

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #418 on: September 06, 2019, 04:39:41 PM »
It's cute that you're so optimistic because "muh money," when this is Google. If it doesn't make them money, they'll cut it fast and hard, consumers be damned.
Games exclusively as a service that we can turn off at anytime. :money

This is the future EA wants.
dog

kingv

  • Senior Member