Bore Comics Thread: Crisis On Infinite Megathreads

[Tasty]

Also a "static" viewpoint of the DC universe constantly rebooting is why I love the Psycho-Pirate and why I feel DC should use him in that capacity more.

[benjipwns]

I liked that aspect of METAL with it definitely going for the "downside" of the multiverse angle, all these worlds that went horrible, targeting the one that went "right" and the direct use of Morrison's multiverse map. It was similar to Forever Evil in that regard, but had much more of a "real threat" feeling than that did, especially since they put the Crime Syndicate "on the run" from the get go.

Of course, I really loved The Multiversity (much like 52 and Final Crisis), but Morrison has handled the original Crisis the best from the start with his Animal Man stint immediately after. METAL really tied into Morrison's whole Batman run.

One other thing I liked in the recent fight issue was Captain Atom disintegrating Doctor Manhattan. Captain Atom is the DC version of the Charlton Comics character that Manhattan's an expy of. (As a side note, the only Captain Atom stories I seem to like all involve him exploding himself. Generation Lost, Wildstorm: Armageddon, etc.)

[benjipwns]

Morrison's Batman run I think is a perfect counterpoint to what Johns is doing. Morrison went and said "all those Batman stories, they're true, it's just even Batman doesn't know how to explain them" whereas Johns likes to write these grandiose EVENTS that have to explain every little detail. It really fucking bogged down his Green Lantern epic. Blackest Night's central storyline (i.e. not all the tie-ins) by Johns has no business being twelve fucking issues, when stuff only happens in like four of them.

[Tasty]

Captain Atom exploding himself is most of what I know about the character. Him and Firestorm, seems like that's all they do sometimes.

Yeah I dig how they ended up using the Forever Evil people, killing some of them off is easy but I always like when a previous major storyline has a major impact on a newer one. #continuity

[benjipwns]

when Justice League International/Europe was kinda a more comedic book back in the 80s/early 90s, there's an issue where Captain Atom blows himself up and nobody cares "because he'll be back" and he was in the next issue

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Captain Atoms DC-integrated back story was that they stuck him on top of a nuke covered in an alien metal shell to see what would happen, and it punched him forward through time (and coated him in that metal) so yeah, him exploding and getting shunted forward through the time stream was a thing that happened to him on the somewhat regular

[kingv]

Captain Atom exploding himself is most of what I know about the character. Him and Firestorm, seems like that's all they do sometimes.

Yeah I dig how they ended up using the Forever Evil people, killing some of them off is easy but I always like when a previous major storyline has a major impact on a newer one. #continuity

Makes me think they should have called new 52 forever young.

[benjipwns]

that's Earth 1 buddy!

For a handful of heroes, Earth-1 is that proverbial unknown of the Multiverse. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Teen Titans may be household names to us, but rest assured, these are not the seasoned veterans with storied histories we’ve come to know and love.

On the newly formed Earth-1, these heroes are just starting out. They’re untested, raw and prone to rookie mistakes. They’re learning on the job. Sounds rough, right? Not entirely. They also have a tremendous drive to protect those who can’t protect themselves. As a result, they have the courage to emerge as the first heroes of this infant Earth. 

Will they succeed? Their futures are blank slates, where nothing is certain. Remember, no one said being first was easy.

[benjipwns]

since I mentioned it, Earth 7 and 8 are the Marvel ones, 8 especially look at the logo lol:

For generations, life on Earth-8 passed like it does on our world. Largely uneventful, and when problems did arise, they were handled easily by the world’s large population of super heroes. Until a day finally arrived like no other, and Earth-8’s strongest heroes were forced to unite against a common threat. The Retaliators were born!

Not quite what you were expecting? Perhaps that’s the best way to describe this world, populated with heroes such as the patriotic power soldier known as American Crusader, the lightning-charged warrior god Wundajin, the massively-morphing, quick to anger monster known as the Behemoth and the scientifically-minded, elementally-powered foursome known as the Future Family. Alongside such figures as Machinehead, Ladybug, Stuntmaster and the “neo-human” heroes of the G-Men, they keep their world safe from threats like the destructive Lord Havok and the Extremists.

On Earth-8, a life of heroism often comes at great sacrifice to the man or woman behind the mask. Faith in heroes is in short supply and mistrust can run rampant. Perhaps the people of Earth-8 should talk to some of their alternate world counterparts, who turn out in droves for movies featuring the very heroes they’re shunning.

A rich world vibrant with culture, community, art and commerce. Earth-7 shared a similar history and development with Earth-8, down to its numerous heroes. Many of Earth-7’s greatest protectors had close counterparts on Earth-8. While the differences between the two were subtle, the potential held within this world was great.

Therefore, it should be seen as nothing less than tragic that Earth-7 was the first to fall to the Gentry. Billions of people and hundreds of super heroes perished, the world surviving as a mere shell of what it once was. Where there was intelligence and vibrancy, now only madness and death remains. The laws of physics shattered, Earth-7’s reality has been twisted and corrupted.

The sole survivor of the cataclysm was Thunderer, a powerful hero who was saved by the last of the Monitors and sent to the House of Heroes to rally help.

[Tasty]

They really nailed it with Morrison's Multiverse map. That should honestly have been the status quo for 30+ years or something. There's no reason big Crisis events can't mess with all the worlds within it, because the structure itself is flexible to narratively support that.

Fucking Didio.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

They really nailed it with Morrison's Multiverse map. That should honestly have been the status quo for 30+ years or something. There's no reason big Crisis events can't mess with all the worlds within it, because the structure itself is flexible to narratively support that.

Fucking Didio.

I guess the editorial worry is you end up with an Ultimate Marvel situation where your spin off universe is better written and more interesting for writers than your 'real' line is

e: and on a completely unrelated note, Ellis The Wild Storm is pretty, pretty good.

[kingv]

They really need an earth where all the 90s wildstorm stuff is canon even if never used.

Also, all this talk about crisis on infinite earths reminds me how dumb superboy prime is. He’s just a complete trash Deus ex machine character every time they want to reboot everything.

[Tasty]

Like most things in comics, he was great in his first appearance and misused ever since.

And I'm counting Infinite Crisis as his real, first, proper introduction as the villainous character he'd end up becoming in latter-day DCU.

[kingv]

I used to think DC’s approach to continuity was better because they actually try to tie it together, t honestly,  the ties are so tenuous and confusing I now don’t really think any of it was worth it.

Maeve has always just kind of said “everything that happened happened” and everything that didn’t happen didn’t happen” and just selectively ignored shit or brought it back as needed for current stories instead of trying tie it all up neatly.... except in the ultimate universe.

I just don’t think it’s possible to tie it all up across as many books as dc and marvel publish.

[Tasty]

It's possible as DC's proven at various points, but it takes actually giving half a fuck which editorial leadership has never been particularly great at.

[kingv]

They just need to turn the reins over to bendis so he can fix it

[Tasty]

They just need to turn the reins over to bendis so he can fix it

[benjipwns]

Earth-41 is basically Image Comics' universe so Wildstorm more or less, Earth-35 and Earth-48 have stuff in common too, a few characters. Though 48 is kinda Alan Moore's Top Ten combined with some other stuff.

Morrison left seven unexplained Earths so they could be filled at some point. The Wild Storm could sit on one of those if it's not on the above.

[Momo]

tbh, i hopped off the doomsday clock shit a while back, around 4 or 5, shit just isnt for me (he says knowing this will fuck all the chars I love).

[Tasty]

tbh, i hopped off the doomsday clock shit a while back, around 4 or 5, shit just isnt for me (he says knowing this will fuck all the chars I love).

Shame, it picks up around then and gets preeeetty good.

Though I say that without knowing the conclusion.

[Himu]

holy shit i need this.



DC needs to transplant this story into batman. Don't make it a crossover, adapt a character inspired by Light.

[Purple Filth]

Get Morrison in there for all of it 

[benjipwns]

been reading some older 80s stuff, in this particular case the original rebuilt The Question series, which is right before DC figures out Vertigo, so it's in that weird awkward space where they stuck "FOR MATURE READERS ONLY" on the cover of a bunch of books that went everywhere from Alan Moore's erotic Swamp Thing to this series which has Batman show up and is basically only a slightly more "mature" Batman series (though Vic doesn't kill either even against Lady Shiva who seems to make an exception for him too like Batman lol), and one of the villains thinks he's Abraham resurrected to sacrifice Isaac, and it's a little more "yeah they fucking" though never shows it but I can see why DC stuck it in that limbo before ending it

but the funny part is arguably more the art because it's not as tight nor timeless as the story, like Vic starts randomly growing the world's most absurd mullet and nobody can identify him as The Question despite the fact that nobody else is wearing hair like this on the entire planet, also he goes literally everywhere and talks to everyone in both identities, also his non vigilante identity is GUY ON THE TV NEWS, every woman start packing in the shoulder pads like crazy and then there's some weirdly questionable racial art that's funny, because O'Neil will write otherwise generic thugs with random linguistic quirks and I'm not sure he went beyond that for these one or two panel, maybe a page, guys but the artist drew them all the same way, two black dudes, one in a wife beater, one in the world's most absurd 80s jacket with hat that says RUN DMC on it and a shirt that says BEASTIE BOYS, and the latter guy is always the stupid one...it's like Vic (and everyone else) keeps running into the only two black guys in the city, gets them in trouble and beats them up over and over

then he gets to a story where Vic goes out into the suburbs and O'Neil clearly establishes it's the white flight for Hub City, but it puts in a line about how it's started to see problems as Hub City collapsed economically/etc. and suddenly BAM standing like next to a random store on main street is wife beater black guy

also like every DC comic of this era, any drugs = crazy LSD trips or DYING FROM ONE SHOT OF HEROIN

spoiler (click to show/hide)

when I take over DC I'm going to write a canon explainer that wife beater dude moved out to the suburbs to get away from rap dude and Vic beating him up every month only to see him driving through the suburbs and he said SHIT THAT GUY and tried to turn his life around

spoiler (click to show/hide)

by moving to Gotham

[close]

[close]

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1152637203492683776

 

[Momo]

tbh, i hopped off the doomsday clock shit a while back, around 4 or 5, shit just isnt for me (he says knowing this will fuck all the chars I love).

Shame, it picks up around then and gets preeeetty good.

Though I say that without knowing the conclusion.

Does fake rorschach ever find Batman's coco pops?

[bork]

Lots of new info on the upcoming X-Men line relaunches- Hickman decided to re-use various team names instead of making new ones...why? 

The biggest thing that made me go "huh!?" is them making Psylocke the new Captain Britain- what happened to the old Captain Britain?  And then they're making Kwannon (who came back to life in her own body after they gave Betsy back her CAC bod) Psylocke-- not gonna confuse people at all.   

If you're in it for Hickman, he's writing X-Men and at least the first few New Mutants issues.

Summers Family with Wolverine X-Men #1:

The X-Men find themselves in a whole new world of possibility… and things have never been better! Jonathan Hickman (HOUSE OF X, POWERS OF X, SECRET WARS) and superstar artist Leinil Yu (NEW AVENGERS, CAPTAIN AMERICA) reveal the saga of Cyclops and his hand-picked squad of mutant powerhouses!

I don't like the 60s-era Marvel Girl costume for Jean Grey.

Excalibur #1:

Mutantkind has always been special…as has their relationship with the world—or WORLDS—around them. As this new era dawns, a new connection forms between mutants and the magic of the world… and that of Otherworld! Can the new Captain Britain forge a new way through the chaos with her companions Rogue, Gambit, Jubilee, Rictor…and Apocalypse?!?

Weird team line-up.

MARAUDERS #1:

Even in this glorious new dawn, Mutantkind faces hardships and oppression from their human counterparts. Led by Captain Kate Pryde and funded by Emma Frost and the Hellfire Trading Company, Marauders Storm, Pyro, Bishop and Iceman sail the seas of the world to protect those hated and feared!

Why does Kitty look like she's 14 here? 

NEW MUTANTS #1

The classic New Mutants (Sunspot, Wolfsbane, Mirage, Karma, Magik, and Cypher) get together with a few new friends (Chamber, Mondo) to seek out their missing member and share the good news… a mission that takes them into space alongside the Starjammers!

I hope somebody explains how Chamber and Wolfsbane, who were both recently killed off, are back. 

FALLEN ANGELS #1



Where is X-23's little sister/buddy Gabby?  Why the hell is Cable with the two of them?  But hey, Jim  Lee-era Psylocke costume is back.  That's something I guess...?

X-FORCE #1

X-Force is the CIA of the mutant world—one half intelligence branch, one half special ops. Beast, Jean Grey and Sage on one side, Wolverine, Kid Omega and Domino on the other. In a perfect world, there would be no need for an X-Force. We’re not there… yet.

Wolverine and Domino as "special ops"- yes.  Kid Omega?  Huh? 

[kingv]

Did they ever explain why havok is no longer grumpy?

[bork]

Did they ever explain why havok is no longer grumpy?

He got turned "villain" because of the Axis mini-series and was one of the few characters who stayed inverted (Sabertooth was a good guy for several years after and Iron Man stayed a "bad buy" until they just ended Superior Iron Man and ignored everything when Secret Wars started- lol, comics) for a while, then in one of the X books got reverted back to a good guy and something was done to fix his face later on.  TL;DR none of that shit mattered.

[kingv]

Axis was definitely the best event.

I think saber tooth is still sort of good. Unless they undid that recently.

[Momo]

I just want to say i hate you all and Tom King's Batman is great

[benjipwns]

Chamber is still getting promoted to top tier teams randomly? He's such a weird choice for a once Generation X character to continue being popular. Didn't he melt away the rest of his body at some point and not just his jaw? I take it he got better.

I have a soft spot for the Phalanx Covenant because it started out as such a fun idea for a "new status quo" with basically no explanation of how things got to that point before it got trashed and then swamped by the Age of Apocalypse.

IIRC, the regular X-Men characters are barely even in the storyline until Cyclops and Jean show up to save the day with Wolverine at the end.

Plus that version of Sabertooth was in retrospect a clear test run for the AoA Sabertooth who led into the Exiles Sabertooth who is the only official canon Sabertooth imo.

Speaking of which, where's Blink? Does this mean there's a new Exiles that won't suck? I'll take another hundred issues of that please, thanks Marvel. (No, I refuse to look up anything regarding "new" Exiles since that second failed relaunch.)

Speaking of which, I was reading some of the early Ultimate X-Men for the first time a few weeks back, and apparently Mark Millar somehow had never read any X-Men before? Claims he only saw the film. (Perhaps first two?) Yet...every character was like maximum stereotype version of the character? Even Rogue talked like at least the cartoon version's extra-exaggerated accent instead of Anna Paquin. I think he's lying.

Does fake rorschach ever find Batman's coco pops?

Alfred made him more pancakes. Also he got some more at Arkham.

Now that I'm actually thinking about that, I realize they never ever show Bruce eating in the dining room, Alfred always has to bring him stuff and basically force him to eat in the cave.

So my only conclusion is that they leave out pancakes in case someone breaks into the Manor as a trap. I prefer this to be the case than any actual intent of Johns. Although, Bruce doesn't seem to be upset about the pancakes, Alfred is well aware of their status though...

Speaking of which, Johns of all people should know better than to show a Jane Doe in Arkham who's highly interested in others identities considering, you know, Jane Doe, the literal identity thief who's often in Arkham...it wasn't until she was revealed as Saturn Girl that anything before made any sense because I thought it was actually Jane Doe

[benjipwns]

that sexy 1980s hardboiled erotic noir style

 

[close]

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

my head canon is that Rorschach never actually eats anywhere other than shitty diners where he can pocket a load of sachets to utilise as impromptu pepper spray or whatever, like a less full-on Condiment King

[bork]

Chamber is still getting promoted to top tier teams randomly? He's such a weird choice for a once Generation X character to continue being popular. Didn't he melt away the rest of his body at some point and not just his jaw? I take it he got better.

I posted this earlier but it was lost in-between all those images- they recently killed Chamber and Wolfsbane.  Not something that matters much in Marvel comics, sure, but an explanation on why both are suddenly alive and well would be nice.

I have a soft spot for the Phalanx Covenant because it started out as such a fun idea for a "new status quo" with basically no explanation of how things got to that point before it got trashed and then swamped by the Age of Apocalypse.

What do you mean?  The Phalanx had been introduced as a big threat already at that point and the backstory is them having infiltrated the X-mansion and replaced nearly everyone except for the few who are the initial focus of the story.  I really enjoyed that storyline, too.  It was a lot of fun.   

IIRC, the regular X-Men characters are barely even in the storyline until Cyclops and Jean show up to save the day with Wolverine at the end.

IIRC it was a few individuals/groups in their own books battling the Phalanx before coming together at the end and freeing the rest of the X-Men.

Plus that version of Sabertooth was in retrospect a clear test run for the AoA Sabertooth who led into the Exiles Sabertooth who is the only official canon Sabertooth imo.

Don't see that- 616 Sabertooth was a psycho and was chained/muzzled up.  He only helped because he was going to get 'replaced' too if he didn't.  Can't remember if this storyline was before or after he beat Psylocke badly.  Funny that years later, Claremont would have AoA Sabertooth and 616 Psylocke hook up. 

Speaking of which, where's Blink? Does this mean there's a new Exiles that won't suck? I'll take another hundred issues of that please, thanks Marvel. (No, I refuse to look up anything regarding "new" Exiles since that second failed relaunch.)

Was back in a recent-ish Exiles series that got canceled for low sales as usual.

[benjipwns]

What do you mean?  The Phalanx had been introduced as a big threat already at that point and the backstory is them having infiltrated the X-mansion and replaced nearly everyone except for the few who are the initial focus of the story.  I really enjoyed that storyline, too.  It was a lot of fun.   

IIRC, the plot just kinda came out of nowhere. Like prior issues were end of a regular X-Men storyline, then BAM next issue turns out everyone's actually a Phalanx replacement and they've gotta escape. And even in the spin-off books it's all side characters suddenly.

I haven't looked this up, this is just how I recall it from 1994 or whenever this happened. I was much more prone to missing issues back in those days though.

I think that's why Sabertooth was in captivity, for Psylocke, but I meant how he was looking out for the youngins rather than bailing completely or just being a wild beast, the AoA/Exiles version was strong on that character addition. I consider it like an authors sketch of the idea, not one that they imparted to the 616 version directly but something they had been toying with and had an opportunity to test. You're right that it probably seems like that more in retrospect than anything.

[benjipwns]

and on a completely unrelated note, Ellis The Wild Storm is pretty, pretty good.

did you read Michael Cray?

also he's going to do Wildcats starting at the end of August

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

and on a completely unrelated note, Ellis The Wild Storm is pretty, pretty good.

did you read Michael Cray?

also he's going to do Wildcats starting at the end of August

nah, because its a spin off not written by Ellis.
I'll enjoy the Authority Covert Action Team TPB in however many years that'll be when that comes out

[bork]

What do you mean?  The Phalanx had been introduced as a big threat already at that point and the backstory is them having infiltrated the X-mansion and replaced nearly everyone except for the few who are the initial focus of the story.  I really enjoyed that storyline, too.  It was a lot of fun.   

IIRC, the plot just kinda came out of nowhere. Like prior issues were end of a regular X-Men storyline, then BAM next issue turns out everyone's actually a Phalanx replacement and they've gotta escape. And even in the spin-off books it's all side characters suddenly.

I haven't looked this up, this is just how I recall it from 1994 or whenever this happened. I was much more prone to missing issues back in those days though.

Yeah, that's correct.  I didn't have a problem with that- it wasn't important to the story IMO.  Kind of movie like in that it just gets right to the action....and appreciated since that was during an era where you'd have all these X-Men issues of various characters just "doin' thangs" and hanging around the mansion sulking about whatever.

[benjipwns]

Oh, I didn't have a problem with it, I wish more comics would start in media res.

Comic movies especially I've long advocated that they just do this as most origins are wastes of time, but everyone wants to retell origin stories for some reason. Superman is afflicted with this even in his books, every writer seemingly wants to do a new origin version when they start.

Man of Steel I thought was actually going to be decent with this at first with just the parts of nomad worker secret hero Clark, but you don't pay Kevin Costner for just a couple flashbacks. (Not to mention all the Krypton shit.) One of the better things about BvS is how it doesn't even bother with Batman (aside from a ten second shot while Bruce is dreaming) and Wonder Woman nor Luthor, it's like, you know these characters, let's roll.

Iron Man worked better in that regard because Tony Stark was already an adult and he builds it, in a cave, with a box of scraps!

Grant Morrison started doing this, along with flash forwards, with his X-Men run. It's in his Action Comics run, even though it does a minor bit of origin story. And it's most of all in Batman where he not only starts RIP with the start of the next, next, storyline, but suddenly starts his entire run with a bunch of events being setup based on stories from the 1960s.

Then there's Seven Soldiers obviously.

[bork]

https://screenrant.com/xmen-reboot-marvel-comic-fake/

The story in House of X #1 seems to kick off roughly six months after the current X-Men run, and it reveals that the resurrected Charles Xavier has apparently established a mutant nation. This is centered on a living island in the Pacific named Krakoa, and he's planted embassies all over the world - and even a couple offworld. Humanity has been persuaded to accept this because of the offer of Krakoan plants that have helpful health effects on humans, including miracle drugs. But is everything what it seems to be?

Spoilers:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

House of X #1 opens with one of the strangest sequences in X-Men comics to date. The first two pages see a mysterious figure standing in a Krakoan growth. Pods open, and mutants emerge - including one who's recognizable as Cyclops, because of the crimson energy shimmering from his eyes. The mutants are all naked, and they crawl across the ground towards the black-clad, helmeted figure, who's clearly pleased with his work. "To me, my X-Men," the man says, a line famously associated with Charles Xavier.

Throughout House of X #1, the X-Men feel strangely out-of-character.

Looked at through a critical eye, it's clear that there is something badly wrong with the X-Men. They appear to have embraced the isolationist ways of Magneto rather than the integrationist dream of Charles Xavier. The scenes with Jean Grey feel strange, not least because she sees Wolverine playing with the kids. This is reminiscent of one moment in Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run, where Wolverine's mind was being manipulated. What's really going on?

In Excalibur #31, Nightcrawler found himself stranded on another Krakoan island. There, he learned that the first Krakoa had absorbed the genetic codes of every being it encountered. The Krakoa encountered by Nightcrawler had fashioned pods in which it created exact duplicates of the X-Men as servants. These pods are identical to the ones shown in House of X's introductory sequence, strongly suggesting that the world isn't dealing with the X-Men at all. That would explain why Cyclops has both eyes, why Jean Grey is in the Marvel Girl costume she wore when she first crossed paths with Krakoa, and why a number of characters are back from the dead. They're all mutants who've encountered a Krakoa before. Meanwhile, notice that "Professor Xavier" never takes off his helmet, suggesting he has something to hide.

It's looks as though Jonathan Hickman's X-Men reboot is a fake-out; that this isn't an X-Men relaunch at all, but an invasion by Krakoa.

[close]

if true, holy shit.  But looking ahead it seems like this also may not necessarily be the case.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

if true, holy shit.  But looking ahead it seems like this also may not necessarily be the case.

bringing back dead x-men and ignoring chunks of continuity because they're krakoan clones barely even registers as a 'wut' in x-men backstories tbh

[bork]

if true, holy shit.  But looking ahead it seems like this also may not necessarily be the case.

bringing back dead x-men and ignoring chunks of continuity because they're krakoan clones barely even registers as a 'wut' in x-men backstories tbh

I could see this working and being some real crazy shit based on the solicits for the relaunched X-Men line- Excalibur mentions its setting is "Otherworld".  X-Men's description is "The X-Men find themselves in a whole new world of possibility… and things have never been better!"

So maybe all the mutants are being moved to their own world separate from the rest of the Marvel universe,

spoiler (click to show/hide)

while Krakoa and Krakoa mutant pod-people stick around and this leads to another big crossover event or something.

[close]

  There were rumblings of the X-Men being moved to their own separate world or universe back before Disney acquired the movie rights, so maybe Hickman is just taking this and rolling with it.  Doesn't really make sense though, but who knows?  Certainly am excited to see how all these new X-books turn out.  This was a much-needed reboot; here's hoping it isn't garbage.

[kingv]

Glad Hickman is cleaning up X-men continuity. Someone had to do it.

... I honestly don’t really like Hickman that much. Imo, his avengers run was some confusing galaxy brain shit and I still don’t know what a blue white or Red event is.

[bork]

Glad Hickman is cleaning up X-men continuity. Someone had to do it.

... I honestly don’t really like Hickman that much. Imo, his avengers run was some confusing galaxy brain shit and I still don’t know what a blue white or Red event is.

I enjoyed all that crazy Avengers multiverse stuff- biggest gripes were not related to his story, but to the other books that didn't keep with the continuity, like Superior Iron Man (where Iron Man was a "bad guy" during this story- went completely ignored by Hickman).  Can't say I'm a stan for him but am looking forward to seeing what happens here.

[Rahxephon91]

I love East of West and the Hickman avengers run. Both are so delightfully weird and epic feeling. I can see people not being into his dry and maybe a bit overwhelming writing. He’s not that into humor or writing fun characters.

The first X-men issue was pretty cool though. I mean I don’t know how it fits with previous runs and I don’t really care. I’m intrigued where this goes and it seems he’s i it for the long haul. Which I like. I like long form stories that take their time. What I’ve hated is the 3-4 issue pointless storylines that don’t feel a part of any bigger picture.

[kingv]

I think my problem with Hickman is more of a symptom of how modern comics are presented and how I consume them  the underlying story.

Modern comics no longer have narrators,  seldom have any internal dialogue,  and are written in more conversational tones. It’s more like “reading a movie” than an” illustrated book”.

As a result, I think it can make complex stories difficult to write cleanly and thus difficult to follow there’s a lot more reading between the lines just to understand the basic plot.

Whereas comics from 20 years ago, normally the character and/or narrator would just plainly say what was going on.

And since I tend to read comics in bed while my wife is pegging me (with questions) I get lost in more complex stories.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I think my problem with Hickman is more of a symptom of how modern comics are presented and how I consume them  the underlying story.

Modern comics no longer have narrators,  seldom have any internal dialogue,  and are written in more conversational tones. It’s more like “reading a movie” than an” illustrated book”.

As a result, I think it can make complex stories difficult to write cleanly and thus difficult to follow there’s a lot more reading between the lines just to understand the basic plot.

Whereas comics from 20 years ago, normally the character and/or narrator would just plainly say what was going on.

And since I tend to read comics in bed while my wife is pegging me (with questions) I get lost in more complex stories.

I kind of agree, but on the other hand no one does claremont style giant fucking exposition dumps mid combat now, which is a net gain

I quite liked Hickmans FF run, but it then got annoying to read when it was literally 1 storyline in 2 seperate books, and I guess I sorta liked his avengers run other than I didn't really recognise the characters any more (and was also 1 fucking storyline split across 2 seperate books)

[kingv]

True. There’s definitely pros and cons. I think I would just prefer to see the pendulum swing a bit back and end up somewhere in the middle.

[kingv]

Also reminds me how many people used to think Claremont was the best comics writer ever. I find his books damn near unreadable today.

[Tasty]

Also reminds me how many people used to think Claremont was the best comics writer ever. I find his books damn near unreadable today.

I mean, dude has the highest-selling comic of all-time. That's gonna give you some influence.

[benjipwns]

Claremont did have a bunch of Marvel meddling that progressively undermined his work, that's why he kept leaving and coming back, they'd promise him freedom then be all like "on second thought..."

In that one instance for New Exiles they told him he couldn't use any villains he didn't invent himself, which is like kinda stupid for a series that's supposed to play with all Marvel stuff.

[agrajag]

wrong thread.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Claremont did have a bunch of Marvel meddling that progressively undermined his work, that's why he kept leaving and coming back, they'd promise him freedom then be all like "on second thought..."

In that one instance for New Exiles they told him he couldn't use any villains he didn't invent himself, which is like kinda stupid for a series that's supposed to play with all Marvel stuff.

But his Exiles run was trash even with that limitation
"So you can use literally any What If version of any supe, go fucking wild... oh you want to use Kitty Pryde and Psylocke because you're fucking obsessed with Kitty Pryde and Psylocke"

[bork]

Also reminds me how many people used to think Claremont was the best comics writer ever. I find his books damn near unreadable today.

I mean, dude has the highest-selling comic of all-time. That's gonna give you some influence.

I think that was way, way more Jim Lee and it being a new #1 X-Men comic- that was very much the start of artists (Lee, McFarlene, Liefeld, etc.) being super-popular and comics being the next big "rare" collectible thing with tons of new #1s, special editions with foil covers, trading cards, and all that shit.

[bork]

Claremont did have a bunch of Marvel meddling that progressively undermined his work, that's why he kept leaving and coming back, they'd promise him freedom then be all like "on second thought..."

In that one instance for New Exiles they told him he couldn't use any villains he didn't invent himself, which is like kinda stupid for a series that's supposed to play with all Marvel stuff.

But his Exiles run was trash even with that limitation
"So you can use literally any What If version of any supe, go fucking wild... oh you want to use Kitty Pryde and Psylocke because you're fucking obsessed with Kitty Pryde and Psylocke"

And dialogue stuck decades in the past, like "Don't worry chum!  We're about to embark on this caper- hey, nice lookin' frail!"

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

And dialogue stuck decades in the past, like "Don't worry chum!  We're about to embark on this caper- hey, nice lookin' frail!"

"Gasp! That... that voice... that costume... Can it really be my beloved teammate Kate, somehow back from the dead, for when last I saw her she was trapped in a projectile rocketing away from earth, its substance somehow rendering her powers futile, and with escape impossible, we had no choice but to assume the worst? Maybe this will be my chance to make amends for the many wrongs I have done her! But perhaps this is not her after all, but through some strange circumstance merely a curious facsimile"

"Oh, Hi Kate"

[bork]

And dialogue stuck decades in the past, like "Don't worry chum!  We're about to embark on this caper- hey, nice lookin' frail!"

"Gasp! That... that voice... that costume... Can it really be my beloved teammate Kate, somehow back from the dead, for when last I saw her she was trapped in a projectile rocketing away from earth, its substance somehow rendering her powers futile, and with escape impossible, we had no choice but to assume the worst? Maybe this will be my chance to make amends for the many wrongs I have done her! But perhaps this is not her after all, but through some strange circumstance merely a curious facsimile"

"Oh, Hi Kate"

\

[kingv]

Also reminds me how many people used to think Claremont was the best comics writer ever. I find his books damn near unreadable today.

I mean, dude has the highest-selling comic of all-time. That's gonna give you some influence.

I think that was way, way more Jim Lee and it being a new #1 X-Men comic- that was very much the start of artists (Lee, McFarlene, Liefeld, etc.) being super-popular and comics being the next big "rare" collectible thing with tons of new #1s, special editions with foil covers, trading cards, and all that shit.

I believe XMen #1 was the beginning of the variant cover trend.

Thinking about those old Claremont stories, I feel like they be incomprehensible in modern comic for
St. They completely relied on the unnatural dialogue to get everything across.

And that led me to a dark thought. You know who is really good at modern comic format, telling a story that has some complexity, but with natural sounding spoken language, and no thought bubbles... yet not fucking confusing to the reader?

Fucking Bendis. Now we know why he gets all that work.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I believe XMen #1 was the beginning of the variant cover trend.

Nah, that was Todd McFarlanes Spiderman #1 that kicked all that crap off.

From what I've read of Bendis, I quite like him (DD, Alias, Powers, New Avengers / Mighty Avengers / Dark Avengers, X-Men / All New X-Men, Ultimate Spiderman).
The MCU films pretty much went with his tone from New Avengers, which I guess accounts for the 'too quippy' complaints

[Tasty]

Fuck Bendis.