Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster  (Read 1291479 times)

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Broseidon

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4260 on: July 12, 2018, 10:02:48 PM »
Interesting how things went from "Progressive immigration policies are backfiring on progressives and the backlash is fuelling the rise of reactionary, xenophobic parties [and this is framed as a bad thing]" to "Eurabia Soon!"  :thinking
bent

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4261 on: July 12, 2018, 10:08:17 PM »
Interesting how things went from "Progressive immigration policies are backfiring on progressives and the backlash is fuelling the rise of reactionary, xenophobic parties [and this is framed as a bad thing]" to "Eurabia Soon!"  :thinking


:thinking :thinking :thinking Wow, very interesting! Where did this happen? :thinking :thinking :thinking

Kara

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4262 on: July 12, 2018, 11:26:45 PM »
Striking how many people discuss immigration in a way that treats the welfare of the migrants as secondary or irrelevant.

Or the things that make them migrate.

shosta

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4263 on: July 13, 2018, 12:06:16 AM »
the uncomfortable praise made me look it up, it's not even Arabs, just Muslims: http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=41489.msg2347755#msg2347755
wow, I didn't even like your post  :doge
每天生气

curly

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4264 on: July 13, 2018, 01:12:39 AM »
wow trump really fucked over theresa may

VomKriege

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4265 on: July 13, 2018, 02:20:57 AM »
My favorite commentary on this topic is actually when Benji hilariously noted that under the most extreme scenario, Arabs would make up about 11% of Europe by like 2050, which would *almost* be the same as the proportion of Americans that are black. :lol

Polls regularly show that many European citizens severely overestimate (when asked to guess) the % of minorities (or the weight of recent immigration) in the population of their own country sometimes by a factor of 2 (France) or 3 (Italy).
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curly

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4266 on: July 13, 2018, 03:41:48 AM »
Americans do the same with percentage of pop that's black, latino, etc

more proof Yurop is racist, they're as bad as Amerikkka

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4267 on: July 13, 2018, 03:42:23 AM »
Optimus, I'm not sure I understand what exactly your concern is about Sweden's status regarding immigration (and why Sweden in particular?) that it will be overnight turned into an Islamic despotism? That immigrants of all types are diluting the national Swedish character/culture? That purebred Swedes have a superior claim on the means of production owned collectively by Sweden?

A sudden doubling of the population, even if they were all Swedes would cause systemic problems as well, and it's just as unrealistic as the country being swarmed with foreigners even with relaxed immigration restrictions.

You claim to be of the left but in this case you seem to want to establish rigidly enforced international hierarchies, in many cases constructed entirely on ethnic lines. I'm not attempting to call you a racist or anything here, but from the argument you've made thus far these are really the only stipulations you have actually presented. Surely, you must see why the cowardly social studies warriors like curly and Mandark would foolishly think they finally have the smoking gun of racism to tar your intellectual forays with.

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4268 on: July 13, 2018, 03:46:01 AM »
Americans do the same with percentage of pop that's black
the main thing is that people often forget to only count 60% of them

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4269 on: July 13, 2018, 05:37:06 AM »
Optimus, I'm not sure I understand what exactly your concern is about Sweden's status regarding immigration (and why Sweden in particular?) that it will be overnight turned into an Islamic despotism? That immigrants of all types are diluting the national Swedish character/culture? That purebred Swedes have a superior claim on the means of production owned collectively by Sweden?

A sudden doubling of the population, even if they were all Swedes would cause systemic problems as well, and it's just as unrealistic as the country being swarmed with foreigners even with relaxed immigration restrictions.

You claim to be of the left but in this case you seem to want to establish rigidly enforced international hierarchies, in many cases constructed entirely on ethnic lines. I'm not attempting to call you a racist or anything here, but from the argument you've made thus far these are really the only stipulations you have actually presented. Surely, you must see why the cowardly social studies warriors like curly and Mandark would foolishly think they finally have the smoking gun of racism to tar your intellectual forays with.


I don't give a flying fuck about Swedish culture but I do care about culture, freedom from superstition, equality, citizens rights, protection from authoritarianism and so on. I'm a big picture guy and I don't believe in rigid principles especially when they interfere with it. Given all that my take on Sweden and Europe is this:

Sweden and Scandinavian countries used to be a social democratic oasis a couple of decades ago that were quickly rejecting religion and while I don't deny that there are racists in Sweden I can't blame many Swedish people if they're not ecstatic when suddenly ~1/10 of the population of their country is mostly consisted of ultra religious uneducated people that don't believe in gay rights, abortion and other basic human rights. The polls in UK for example are very fucking scary about muslim populations. Meanwhile, the leftist parties within a decade quickly turned from Social Democratic in Sweden to the classic identity politics parties that mostly ignore economic issues and let Sweden drift towards full on capitalism while their idpol morons smear anyone voicing concerns about immigrants and other issues. Frustration against EU that is an undemocratic shithole promoting neoliberalism and is completely disconnected from the average European is also growing Europe-wide while the so called left is stubbornly defending it often rejecting all criticism as nationalism.

That so called left in Sweden and other countries therefore left no choice to many people, and when people are left cornered with no good options in sight they're becoming very dangerous, dangerous enough to turn to the far right. Do I feel empathy for the millions of displaced people from wars started by politicians fucking hypocrites like Mandark voted for? I sure fucking do. But I also think the big picture is that no one will benefit from bringing millions of immigrants in Europe (other than the rich fucks of course that want cheap slaves and pushed for immigration). Not the immigrants themselves because the far-right is quickly descending on Europe, not European societies that not only are shitty at integrating populations but with mass immigration they're practically unable to do it resulting in huge immigrant ghettos that will always be a source of conflict and a perfect opportunity for the far-right, not for the Left that is quickly losing ground everywhere, not for fucking anyone.

The solution of paying off billions to muslim nations like turkey to keep the immigrants seems much more sensible to me. Immigrants will be integrated much easier in these nations and the only continent on the planet that isn't a complete capitalist shithole might not turn into a far right hell. Austria just voted for 12 hour work days with the help of the far-right btw, great huh?

Now I'm sure some fucking idiot will skim this post and take a particular part of it out of context ignoring the rest of it which is why I don't put too much effort into my posts.

team filler

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4270 on: July 13, 2018, 05:45:17 AM »
 :clap :clap :clap
*****

Mandark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4271 on: July 13, 2018, 05:54:23 AM »
So the concern is specifically that Muslim populations in Sweden and elsewhere will gain political power and roll back gay rights and access to abortion?

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4272 on: July 13, 2018, 06:11:23 AM »
So the concern is specifically that Muslim populations in Sweden and elsewhere will gain political power and roll back gay rights and access to abortion?


Yes, that's the only concern. Because suddenly living in the same neighborhood or even city with a bunch ultra religious uneducated people that hate gays, think your daughter is a whore because of the way she dresses, have utter contempt for women, equality, citizen's rights and so on sure wouldn't rub people the wrong way. It is only racism and your strawman that could piss people off enough to vote for the far-right (which is actually my primary concern right now, not that religiontards aren't one, they always are) especially when the so called left is consisted of fucking geniuses like you that quickly jump to ridicule and vilify people's concerns about the issue.

OK my question now. Who did you vote for oh grand protector of these immigrants the last two elections? Immigrants whose entire lives were ruined by Obama's and Clinton's wars?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 06:18:48 AM by Optimus »

Mandark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4273 on: July 13, 2018, 06:18:36 AM »
Yes, that's the only concern. Because suddenly living in the same neighborhood or even city with a bunch ultra religious uneducated people that hate gays, think your daughter is a whore because of the way she dresses, have utter contempt for women, equality, citizen's rights and so on sure wouldn't rub people the wrong way

What sort of policies do you think would be best to prevent this from happening? Caps or bans on Muslim immigrants generally, an individualized screening process, or something else?

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4274 on: July 13, 2018, 06:27:36 AM »
Yes, that's the only concern. Because suddenly living in the same neighborhood or even city with a bunch ultra religious uneducated people that hate gays, think your daughter is a whore because of the way she dresses, have utter contempt for women, equality, citizen's rights and so on sure wouldn't rub people the wrong way

What sort of policies do you think would be best to prevent this from happening? Caps or bans on Muslim immigrants generally, an individualized screening process, or something else?


I already explained that paying billions for other Muslim nations to keep and care for these immigrants is the best possible solution right now while at the same time refusing to receive more immigrants. It's a shitty situation with no possible good solution. It would also be great if neoliberal banker scum of the earth like Macron didn't try to convince Trump to continue with the war in Syria that is actively funding and arming Islamic terrorists while keeping the country destabilized.

But the best possible solution imo would be if we went back in time and protectively locked in prison Bush, Rumsfeld, Obama, Clinton and the rest of the neocon scum for crimes against humanity so none of this happened.

warcock

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4275 on: July 13, 2018, 06:32:37 AM »
Not taking sides on this I will say this though american liberals have very little exposure to old world muzzis. Alot of americans muzzis are by in large pretty moderate. Not a fan, prefer to bat for the little boi molesters. While I know this will do nothing to shake the largesse of your ethical foundations, take a second and observe how christians are treated in most of the middle east. Hint: it aint all about just economics.

Mandark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4276 on: July 13, 2018, 06:35:13 AM »
It's a shitty situation with no possible good solution.

I mean in general, beyond the recent crisis.

If the culture of these people is so corrosive that it is harmful to the residents of developed countries, to the point that the government should be protecting its citizens from that harm, what are appropriate measures to take?

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4277 on: July 13, 2018, 06:51:23 AM »
Not taking sides on this I will say this though american liberals have very little exposure to old world muzzis. Alot of americans muzzis are by in large pretty moderate. Not a fan, prefer to bat for the little boi molesters. While I know this will do nothing to shake the largesse of your ethical foundations, take a second and observe how christians are treated in most of the middle east. Hint: it aint all about just economics.
The implication of course being that we should lower our standards to be nearer those deplorable savages.

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4278 on: July 13, 2018, 07:11:49 AM »
Not the immigrants themselves because the far-right is quickly descending on Europe, not European societies that not only are shitty at integrating populations but with mass immigration they're practically unable to do it resulting in huge immigrant ghettos that will always be a source of conflict and a perfect opportunity for the far-right, not for the Left that is quickly losing ground everywhere, not for fucking anyone.

The solution of paying off billions to muslim nations like turkey to keep the immigrants seems much more sensible to me. Immigrants will be integrated much easier in these nations and the only continent on the planet that isn't a complete capitalist shithole might not turn into a far right hell. Austria just voted for 12 hour work days with the help of the far-right btw, great huh?
It is only racism and your strawman that could piss people off enough to vote for the far-right (which is actually my primary concern right now
I already explained that paying billions for other Muslim nations to keep and care for these immigrants is the best possible solution right now
I trimmed your posts to the bare points and hopefully did not take them out of context in the process, I apologize if I did.

So if I am understanding you correctly, the problem to be concerned about is the Yuropean Right increasing their power by exploiting fear of these future religious (predominately Muslim) threats.

The Yuropean Right being a political grouping which is generally nationalist, anti-free trade, anti-immigration/foreigners, anti-IDPOL/PC, pro-welfare state (but only for the civilized classes/cultures) and has been almost universally anti-Muslim to where they often wind up dead. And then there's their EU views....

So your solution is to essentially implement their agenda including a full stop of all immigration, increase taxes more on the workers in order to send untold billions in bribe money to authoritarian models of inequality to help them run militarized police states with the duty of imposing a lock on the free movement of what will likely be minority groups in conditions that will be easily compared to ghettos and probably ferment endless sources of conflict. As evidenced by, well, every location that looks like this in the Middle East or Africa, which is where we'll be "storing" these inconvenient people.

In other words, we have to implement their agenda PLUS in order to ward off the potential of their winning elections and enacting their agenda.

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4279 on: July 13, 2018, 07:38:52 AM »
So if I am understanding you correctly, the problem to be concerned about is the Yuropean Right increasing their power by exploiting fear of these future religious (predominately Muslim) threats.

The Yuropean Right being a political grouping which is generally nationalist, anti-free trade, anti-immigration/foreigners, anti-IDPOL/PC, pro-welfare state (but only for the civilized classes/cultures) and has been almost universally anti-Muslim to where they often wind up dead. And then there's their EU views....

So your solution is to essentially implement their agenda including a full stop of all immigration, increase taxes more on the workers in order to send untold billions in bribe money to authoritarian models of inequality to
help them run militarized police states with the duty of imposing a lock on the free movement of what will likely be minority groups in conditions that will be easily compared to ghettos and probably ferment endless sources of conflict. As evidenced by, well, every location that looks like this in the Middle East or Africa, which is where we'll be "storing" these inconvenient people.

In other words, we have to implement their agenda PLUS in order to ward off the potential of their winning elections and enacting their agenda.


Stopping mass immigration isn't nationalist, it's a solution that makes sense right now as I thoroughly explained in my post. Anti-"""""free""""" trade is actually a leftist principle because the trade is only "free" for corporations that use it to exploit the poor of underdeveloped nations and screw the lower and middle class of developed ones while it also gives an incentive to keep counties poor and dependent on their slave labor. There's a difference between free trade and capitalist so called free trade. Anti-PC is the only rational choice for intelligent people that don't depend on censorship to sweep the ugliness of society under the rag (or, you know, humor and many other wonderful things that come with not walking on eggshells), it's not a left versus right issue not matter how much SJWs want to make it so, it's a rational vs moron issue. But the worst part of your post is this one:

Quote
pro-welfare state (but only for the civilized classes/cultures)

No fucking way dude. The far-right don't give a shit about welfare, you must have missed the part of my post talking about Austria. The far-right are opportunistic scum that pretend to support these issues and then screw local and immigrant populations alike. There would be no significant welfare in a far-right Europe.

Quote
increase taxes more on the workers in order to send untold billions in bribe money to authoritarian models of inequality to
help them run militarized police states with the duty of imposing a lock on the free movement of what will likely be minority groups in conditions that will be easily compared to ghettos and probably ferment endless sources of conflict.

As opposed to increasing taxes more on the workers in order to support the welfare system that is crumbling under pressure of uncontrolled immigration while the countries are slowly turning into far-right authoritarian shitholes that will eventually impose a lock on free movement? The ghettos that are sources of conflict have already been mentioned... So your solution is to destroy Europe too for the principle of it or something. Or are you that unrealistic hoping that the far-right trend will magically stop especially if you allow more mass immigration?

warcock

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4280 on: July 13, 2018, 07:58:09 AM »
Not taking sides on this I will say this though american liberals have very little exposure to old world muzzis. Alot of americans muzzis are by in large pretty moderate. Not a fan, prefer to bat for the little boi molesters. While I know this will do nothing to shake the largesse of your ethical foundations, take a second and observe how christians are treated in most of the middle east. Hint: it aint all about just economics.
The implication of course being that we should lower our standards to be nearer those deplorable savages.

Maybe not but just be cognizant that there may some relevance to some of the reticence or reservations that some more moderate people display( as oppossed to the bigots). Dont base your laws on said fears but realize there is some risk with going the highway and it may result in some backlash. It is not immediately obvious to me that libtards and libetaritards demonstrate any type of acknowledgement for the risks involved.

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4281 on: July 13, 2018, 08:16:25 AM »
Stopping mass immigration isn't nationalist
Stopping all immigration as part of an isolationist method to preserve the purity of the Nation would be strange if it didn't take nationalism into account.

But the worst part of your post is this one:

Quote
pro-welfare state (but only for the civilized classes/cultures)

No fucking way dude. The far-right don't give a shit about welfare, you must have missed the part of my post talking about Austria. The far-right are opportunistic scum that pretend to support these issues and then screw local and immigrant populations alike. There would be no significant welfare in a far-right Europe.
The nationalist Yuropean Right generally maintains its ideological ties with fascism, all the major parties of that tendency are on board with the welfare state just as the original fascists were. The welfare state just isn't open to those not of the Nation. This is one of the fundamentals of fascism and its roots in the concepts of late 19th century nationalism.

Quote
As opposed to increasing taxes more on the workers in order to support the welfare system that is crumbling under pressure of uncontrolled immigration
As there is nowhere in the West without extensive restrictions on the right of free movement there are no examples of welfare systems crumbling under the pressure of uncontrolled immigration to point to.

Welfare systems are facing basic demographics, and demographics based almost entirely on the "native" populations, if anything they often rely on immigrants to maintain the population rates as shown in the Sweden example earlier.

kingv

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4282 on: July 13, 2018, 08:36:14 AM »
God not only is trump a fascist he’s a shitty fascist. Doesn’t even support the welfare state :-(

I think them old school Muslim beliefs would only have a half life of 3 instagram thots in the US of A.

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4283 on: July 13, 2018, 09:08:43 AM »
Quote
Stopping all immigration as part of an isolationist method to preserve the purity of the Nation would be strange if it didn't take nationalism into account.


Except that no one made that argument and that you're purposely taking solutions based on logic instead of principle to an extreme to smear anyone making them.


Quote
The nationalist Yuropean Right generally maintains its ideological ties with fascism, all the major parties of that tendency are on board with the welfare state just as the original fascists were. The welfare state just isn't open to those not of the Nation. This is one of the fundamentals of fascism and its roots in the concepts of late 19th century nationalism.

Just like all ideologies that are basically morally and ideologically bankrupt they morph to whatever serves their and the interests of the politicians supporting them better. It's the same reason for example libertarianism and neoliberalism always morph into full on corporatism also known as inverted totalitarianism.  The far-right in Europe despite what they say have similar lack of morality and awareness and just like they did in Austria they will quickly morph into that with the only difference being that they would be extremely socially backwards.

Quote
As there is nowhere in the West without extensive restrictions on the right of free movement there are no examples of welfare systems crumbling under the pressure of uncontrolled immigration to point to.

Welfare systems are facing basic demographics, and demographics based almost entirely on the "native" populations, if anything they often rely on immigrants to maintain the population rates as shown in the Sweden example earlier.

That happens when there's controlled immigration not when there's mass immigration rapidly changing these demographics without any preparation.

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4284 on: July 13, 2018, 09:50:31 AM »
Except that no one made that argument and that you're purposely taking solutions based on logic instead of principle to an extreme to smear anyone making them.
You did:
suddenly ~1/10 of the population of their country is mostly consisted of ultra religious uneducated people
...
The solution of paying off billions to muslim nations like turkey to keep the immigrants seems much more sensible to me. Immigrants will be integrated much easier in these nations
I already explained that paying billions for other Muslim nations to keep and care for these immigrants is the the best possible solution right now while at the same time refusing to receive more immigrants.
Nationalism is not inherently a smear, I would think someone opposed to globalists and internationalists and immigration would be most aware that they are prioritizing the nation's interests.

Quote
It's the same reason for example libertarianism and neoliberalism always morph into full on corporatism also known as inverted totalitarianism.
This is certainly a theory.

Quote
That happens when there's controlled immigration not when there's mass immigration rapidly changing these demographics without any preparation.
Controlled immigration is what is occurring, there is no uncontrolled "mass immigration" rapidly changing demographics in the West. Old white people are still going to be the hinge on which the welfare states turn.

Optimus

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4285 on: July 13, 2018, 10:16:11 AM »
Except that no one made that argument and that you're purposely taking solutions based on logic instead of principle to an extreme to smear anyone making them.
You did:
suddenly ~1/10 of the population of their country is mostly consisted of ultra religious uneducated people
...
The solution of paying off billions to muslim nations like turkey to keep the immigrants seems much more sensible to me. Immigrants will be integrated much easier in these nations
I already explained that paying billions for other Muslim nations to keep and care for these immigrants is the the best possible solution right now while at the same time refusing to receive more immigrants.
Nationalism is not inherently a smear, I would think someone opposed to globalists and internationalists and immigration would be most aware that they are prioritizing the nation's interests.

Quote
It's the same reason for example libertarianism and neoliberalism always morph into full on corporatism also known as inverted totalitarianism.
This is certainly a theory.

Quote
That happens when there's controlled immigration not when there's mass immigration rapidly changing these demographics without any preparation.
Controlled immigration is what is occurring, there is no uncontrolled "mass immigration" rapidly changing demographics in the West. Old white people are still going to be the hinge on which the welfare states turn.

So what I said is nationalist because my educated guess is that Muslim population will be integrated much better in... Muslim countries and that it's a lose lose situation if they keep coming to Europe?

 You keep avoiding to address the far right problem or legitimate concerns socially progressive Europeans that don't dogmatically believe that even unchecked immigration is good immigration have about ultra religious uneducated populations that has been proven not to integrate well in European societies.

So, what is YOUR solution to the far right problem that keeps growing in Europe given that you're against limits in immigration? Given that Europe has the most educated populations on the planet and they're still turning to the far right in their desperation as a response to mass immigration of Muslim populations and EU, please offer your solution. What is YOUR solution to integrate ultra religious populations that show contempt for European values, have formed ghettos in many Europeans countries and often don't even learn the language? Instead of burying your head in the sand and hping that everything wil eventually work out if you believe in your principles hard enough please offer actual practical solutions.

Kara

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4286 on: July 13, 2018, 10:20:13 AM »
Not taking sides on this I will say this though american liberals have very little exposure to old world muzzis. Alot of americans muzzis are by in large pretty moderate.

If you told me several of the friends I made in my major were arrested fighting in the Syrian Civil War I wouldn't be surprised.

Mandark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4287 on: July 13, 2018, 10:24:09 AM »
Over 80% of Syrian refugees are already in Muslim-majority countries, IIRC. Turkey alone (which has a different ethnic identity and language from Syria) has something like three times the total refugees of the EU combined.

Corporal

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4288 on: July 13, 2018, 10:29:32 AM »
I think we could get rid of many if not most problems within a few generations if the West started to push its own brand of the Muslim faith. Bashful as ever, we could call it "enlightened" or "modern" Islam or something, tastefully "infused" with our obviously superior values.
Then kick out and replace all the radical nutter Imams that rile up and hold back the muslims in the West with brainwashed proper Imams. Preferrably white ones, obviously. Show them that we're one of them and stuff. All hip and such. Maybe stone a few women on the side if that helps. And then, a few decades later, we could start exporting that faith back to the Middle East to pacify the region and bring them towelheaded sand nuggets out of the stone age.

Maybe blitzkrieg Saudi Arabia while we're at it. They're one of the major sources of radical islamism I'm told. As a bonus, we could also anschluss Turkey and Israel while we're on the way down. The Turks because Erdogan but mostly cuz they have just an outright ridiculous amount of influence on German/European Turks and Muslims via their state-sponsored mosques and Imams. Israel, well, why not. It's become kind of a habit. And old habits die hard. Just like the Nazi sympathizers in German government institutions.

Note to self: Send more money to Putin. Trump needs to be kept on a tight leash for this to succeed.


No but seriously, I kinda yearn for the (easily romanticized) days when Muslims and Europeans lived in some sort of uneasy and fragile not-really-peace. We got paper, science, the zero, medicinal knowledge, philosophy and loads of other useful crap out of it. Plus, some really nice mosques and stuff e.g. in Spain. (Coincidentally....) Fucken Mongols had to fuck it up for everyone, though.

Even in war, we still got coffee and culture. The lesser Germans in and around Vienna wouldn't be half as entertaining if it weren't for their various "Middle Eastern imports".


Anyway, bring it on. If it means that I will wake up to a random guy yelling gibberish from a tower instead of cockadoodledoos or church bells in the future, then so be it. I dun care either way, awake is awake. If our culture is so weak that it irrepairably succumbs to a dilution to a generous nine in ten, then it should have crashed and burned a long time ago. Sure, there will be heinous crimes and terrible pain and agony along the way as our ways of life clash, but nothing is ever gained for free.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, TMI time! I have a slight fetish for mixed bloods.
:phil C'mon immigrants, regardless from where you are, integrate and breed for my viewing pleasure in twenty years or so.
:phil Hurry up before my time runs out and breed, preferrably with the local populace.
:phil I want to hear those delicious accents and ogle familiar-yet-exotic curves.
:phil Homegrown stuff is so boring in comparison...
[close]
!list

curly

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4289 on: July 13, 2018, 03:22:19 PM »
Over 80% of Syrian refugees are already in Muslim-majority countries, IIRC. Turkey alone (which has a different ethnic identity and language from Syria) has something like three times the total refugees of the EU combined.

There are roughly 1.5 million Syrian refugees in Lebanon, a country of 6 million. That's way bigger demographic change than any place in Europe is experiencing in a country that's poorer and much more unstable than the Euro destinations of immigration. But they're (barely more than half) Muslim and brown, should work out fine right?

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4290 on: July 13, 2018, 03:52:32 PM »
That's not a demographic change because they're all mooselums
每天生气

Corporal

  • Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4291 on: July 13, 2018, 04:03:08 PM »
^Not sure if this post is satire or not but my head hurts.
It's not exceedingly obvious? ...was it the lack of Nazi UFOs? I knew I should've added some.

:'(

Well, there was an attempt.

I guess.

Don't mind me.


I'll just be sitting

over there

where I belong
!list

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4292 on: July 13, 2018, 04:03:36 PM »
Germans  :yuck
每天生气

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4293 on: July 13, 2018, 04:04:53 PM »
That's not a demographic change because they're all mooselums

muslins


BisMarckie

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4295 on: July 13, 2018, 04:12:08 PM »
Germans  :yuck




Couldn't decide which one to post....

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4296 on: July 13, 2018, 04:16:14 PM »
White people are disgusting looking, I think a demographic change would vastly improve the sexual appeal of most Europeans.
每天生气

Corporal

  • Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4297 on: July 13, 2018, 04:19:33 PM »
Germans  :yuck
       :bolo
Don't make me yodel at you.
!list

BisMarckie

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4298 on: July 13, 2018, 04:20:55 PM »

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4299 on: July 13, 2018, 04:26:28 PM »
White people are disgusting looking, I think a demographic change would vastly improve the sexual appeal of most Europeans.

when yurop becomes eurabia :lawd

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4300 on: July 13, 2018, 04:29:56 PM »
Persian women are pretty hot

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4301 on: July 13, 2018, 04:34:16 PM »
Over 80% of Syrian refugees are already in Muslim-majority countries, IIRC. Turkey alone (which has a different ethnic identity and language from Syria) has something like three times the total refugees of the EU combined.

Lebanon hosts millions (though it's less "Muslim majority than most other countries in the region).
ὕβρις

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4302 on: July 13, 2018, 04:43:16 PM »
Lebanon treats Palestinian refugees pretty bad, hard not to see the same thing happening to Syrians if the government doesn't win the civil war.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4303 on: July 13, 2018, 04:58:11 PM »
Why is Optimus assuming that all these refugees are somehow better off integrating into neighboring Muslim countries than Europe? There are a ton of regimes that have no interest in treating these refugees with any sense of decency or respect. It seems to get to this ignorant western notion that all Muslims are the same, and that other issues that we always acknowledge in any other context somehow don't exist in the Middle East.

Not to mention, and I pointed it out the other day, lots of data shows the opposite of what Optimus has tried to assert that muslims are not integrating.


curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4304 on: July 13, 2018, 05:04:53 PM »
because optimus is very stupid

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4305 on: July 13, 2018, 05:08:07 PM »
fair answer

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
©@©™

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4307 on: July 13, 2018, 06:01:30 PM »
Lebanon treats Palestinian refugees pretty bad, hard not to see the same thing happening to Syrians if the government doesn't win the civil war.

Yeah I guess but the effort expected from Lebanon is insane, hosting 1m+ refugees in a country where the population is estimated at 6m, who went through a civil war not unlike the war in Syria not too long ago and in a perpetual state of destabilization through foreign influence.
ὕβρις

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4308 on: July 13, 2018, 06:52:49 PM »
Hey we haven't heard from Iraq for a while, I wonder what's going on... oh
https://twitter.com/L0gg0l/status/1017904040057954304
🤴

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4309 on: July 13, 2018, 10:54:15 PM »
Over 80% of Syrian refugees are already in Muslim-majority countries, IIRC. Turkey alone (which has a different ethnic identity and language from Syria) has something like three times the total refugees of the EU combined.

There are roughly 1.5 million Syrian refugees in Lebanon, a country of 6 million. That's way bigger demographic change than any place in Europe is experiencing in a country that's poorer and much more unstable than the Euro destinations of immigration. But they're (barely more than half) Muslim and brown, should work out fine right?

The obvious country that should be taking on way more refugees than it has is the United States, by any reasonable way of figuring these things.

Of course Syrians are now explicitly banned for what John Roberts assures me are super legit reasons.

warcock

  • Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4310 on: July 13, 2018, 11:30:32 PM »
Lebanon treats Palestinian refugees pretty bad, hard not to see the same thing happening to Syrians if the government doesn't win the civil war.

Yeah I guess but the effort expected from Lebanon is insane, hosting 1m+ refugees in a country where the population is estimated at 6m, who went through a civil war not unlike the war in Syria not too long ago and in a perpetual state of destabilization through foreign influence.

The palestinian refugees were a catalyst of that civil war as well. Like someone else alluded the syrian refugees are not wanted in the neighbooring countries. If you want to use the palestinian exodus as a case study, lebanon being the worst case and jordan being probably the best. It does not beam one with optimism. Rofl pan arabism died with Nasser s failed war.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4311 on: July 14, 2018, 12:10:35 AM »
The idea that Arabs* are fungible and you can just shift them from one territory to another without problems is something you hear a lot from person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation hawks. "There's no such thing as a Palestinian" etc.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*And of course, as it relates to this discussion, Turks ain't Arabs.
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shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4312 on: July 14, 2018, 12:14:53 AM »
Defeatism over the ability of Arabs to someday achieve Arab unity is what allows them to continue being manipulated by capricious foreign powers
每天生气

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4313 on: July 14, 2018, 08:41:00 AM »
When it comes to war refugees it's much better to help close to where they live than to move them over.
- The most healthy/rich manage to get out to save havens, the weak and poor remain which results in a brain drain after the conflict is over
- Creating economic incentives and better living conditions in the region is far less expensive and much more valuable on the long term
- Most of the refugees would rather stay home or return home if they had the chance (in fact a significant portion of Syrians did so)
- You don't introduce new political struggles and tensions in other countries
- The refugees don't have to go on a dangerous sometimes lethal trip

Inequality between Africa and Europe is not solved by moving over millions of people from one continent to another and was never part of the solidarity deal with Syrian war victims.
Many people are actually in favor of taking in war refugees (same as we did for the Balkans and the Iraq conflict) but they don't want to take in millions of economic migrants at the same time.

And honestly, the NGO's, UN think tanks and progressives never ever bother to criticize the governments that fail to provide for their citizens to a level that they volunteer to live in tents along the border.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Boots up Xbox One X, grabs cold beer from the fridge  :smug
[close]
🤴

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4314 on: July 14, 2018, 09:39:38 AM »
Yeah, you never hear NGO's criticize... the Syrian government.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4315 on: July 14, 2018, 03:52:26 PM »
my educated guess is that Muslim population will be integrated much better in... Muslim countries
People have mentioned this but I want to make it rather more explicit. I would recommend a glance at Wikipedia for both the history of Islam, and the history of the Middle East, for a primer on how well Muslims, and even just Arabs, have treated each other since...well, at least since God visited Muhammed and he "united" the Arab tribes. (Hint: it was pretty temporary and rather unofficial.)

If this is too much and a place like Lebanon seems boring, perhaps something about Iraq just during the periods under and post-Saddam? (Afghanistan might be a better example, except no Arabs.)

You might also want to consider whether the person who should have followed Muhammed as the Caliph should have been Ali.

As for Turkey, their secular authoritarian regime of Turks (and Kurds), which is 2/3'rds Sunni and already hosts the largest refugee population in the world may not be the best place to temporarily-permanently store more Muslims (and/or Arabs) even if they're also Sunni. Although they have recently let up quite a bit on that ferociously secular state thing that Ataturk wanted to better mistreat minorities.

Though thinking about Afghanistan again...maybe we should just dump all the world's refugees in the unpopulated areas there. If they're fans of an arid climate with no water, Iran next door has some really great vacant real estate with no population. Do they like months of unceasing wind too?

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4316 on: July 14, 2018, 04:56:40 PM »
Yeah I guess but the effort expected from Lebanon is insane, hosting 1m+ refugees in a country where the population is estimated at 6m, who went through a civil war not unlike the war in Syria not too long ago and in a perpetual state of destabilization through foreign influence.

I don't begrudge them too much for it; everyone treats Palestinians abominably.

warcock

  • Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4317 on: July 14, 2018, 05:23:43 PM »
White people are disgusting looking, I think a demographic change would vastly improve the sexual appeal of most Europeans.

You want the whole of europe to look like spain?   8) 8)

Isco is so hot, no homo.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Russia + China = World superpowers
« Reply #4318 on: July 14, 2018, 06:35:57 PM »
Look, Christians are all one single-minded entity, so it only makes sense that Muslims are too.

Nintex

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  • Senior Member
🤴